QUOTE (Layth @ Jul 6 2008, 07:11 AM)
if any1 could just tell me in briefly what are the differences at least between polish and egyptian arabian horses (and Crabbet if possible).. for example in shape of body or head (if there is any) , movement , strength .. characteristics !! ... i donno anything ..
it may seem like a stupid question but I would be grateful if some1 could help me
thanks
The only stupid question is an important one that is never asked...I consider questions that influence future purchase or breeding decisions VERY important!!
There is so much information to learn and comprehend out there it can easily be confusing. I am in awe of your efforts to study the material in a second language. The differences between strains, types & lines can be confusing (and subject to dispute) even when studied and discussed in the language of one's birth.
You asked for help with: shape of body or head, movement, strength, characteristics between polish and egyptian arabian horses (and Crabbet if possible).
To me, you can't discuss tendencies of body/head shape & characteristics which affect movement/strengths of Polish/Egyptian/Crabbet lines in certain activities without getting into "TYPES".
I can't help you with a quick or substantiated "Polish Arabians are big & strong-bodied athletes" <--> "Egyptian are hardened/refined capable equine partners"
For your questions, I would humbly suggest the simple framework of three concepts - Strain|Type|Bloodline
TYPES: "Type" refers to
conformational characteristics specific to the Arabian horse such as the dished head that may be more or less "extreme", the croup which may be more or less level, the tail carriage which may be more or less pronounced, the fine skin with its silky coat, and the action which is a hallmark of the breed, the basic & universal characteristics of good horse conformation apply (good skeletal structure, straight legs, good proportions & balance between the thirds of the body); a way of understanding the physiological range of type within the breed; consider a sliding scale with two SETS of characteristics at either end ---> Try HERE
larger, longer, coarser and more masculine type <--> smaller, shorter, finer formed, beauty/feminine
Seven familiar "types" arranged in order from one extreme to the other
Hamdani - Kuhaylan - Dahman - Hadban - Saqlawi - Abayyan - Muniqi
NOTE: People have been arguing for hundreds of years the possibility that "strains" and "types" may or may NOT have a relationship to each other
*: Strains (or families) are frequently used terms for
grouping certain horses according to their various Bedoiun breeders; the name of the
Bedoiun tribe became the
name of the strain [ex:
Seqlawi,
Keheilan,
Abeyyan,
Hamdani]; over time distinct strain traits or family resemblences developed and a Bedouin could tell what family/strain a horse belonged to and was descended from;
a foal is the same strain as its mother (as a matter of practicality, one can better record who is the dam of a foal...in the middle of the desert...after a raid...); strain breeding is the focus in pure or "Straight" Egyptian programs according to what the Bedouin tribe or modern breeder prefers as their ideal horse in form & function --->
Try HERE to get a simple intro to strains with examples, not the end-all work, but a simple one to start with - for much more, click on STRAINS* above for many more links for your research
Add to that the spelling issue of strain names...MUCH confusion in grasping Strain & Type details since the Bedouin had male & female versions of each type (much like
French adjectives have a masculine & feminine form depending on what they are describing, "grande/grande" or "dangereux/dangereuse"; when the Europeans took their desert breds home, they spelled out the strain names how they thought they sounded...and of course not everyone agreed from country to country....Koheilan|Kuhaylan...
LINES (Bloodlines): Arabians
initially bred in a
country or program usually with a specific goal or purpose in mind; different TYPES (Koheilan/Seqlawi/etc.) are found in all of the LINES, although some TYPES may dominate some LINES --->
Try HEREEgyptian - Bred for thousands of years as Raiding party mounts who slept in their owners' tents at the end of the day; strain/type development varied according to tribe preferences; tested by war battles and harsh natural selection; Much emphasis on the dam line in a pedigree (all the dams in the bottom row of a pedigree -> back to the original desert bred 'tail female' or founder of that dam line & STRAIN [ex: Rodania, Sahara, Dajania]). A horse could thus be described as a <STRAIN name> with the <tail female> line. If all of the ancestors are of the same strain for a set # of generations, than that horse would be considered "pure in strain for <#> generations"
Polish - Bred for hundreds of years as Cavalry mounts; racing tests used as selection method for breeding stock; Greater emphasis on the sire line in a pedigree (all the sires in the top row of a pedigree -> back to the original desert-bred import founder of that sire line [ex: Kuhailan Haifi, Bairacter, Ibrahim]), but "mare families" are certainly valued and used/continued with great care [ex: Mlecha, Gazella II, Scherife]). Many Polish foal names start with the letter of their dam's name in order to highlight/trace the mare family. A horse could thus be described as of the <name> sire line from the <letter> family. Polish lines are primarily described in terms of emphasis or blending of the Koheilan & Seqlawi types
Crabbet - Bred for nearly 100 years by an English family with stables in England & Egypt, focus a multi-function saddle horse of good temperament; primarily tested by show & jumping competitions but possibly also endurance trials...; Pedigree elements of sire & dam lines both emphasized & integrated into producing next generation, Lord & Lady Crabbet and their daughter Lady Wentworth used a variety of sire & dam lines to create their legacy. The offspring of a mating is always "by" a stallion "out of" a mare, ["The multi-talented and influential Crabbet stallion Abu Farwa by Rabiyas out of Rissletta was grand-sire to all four 1967 Canadian National Champions via his son Ga'Zi."...that is how one should say Abu Farwa (Rabiyas x Rissletta)]
~~~~~~~~~
I am relatively new to the breed as well but am fortunate to have partnered with two ladies who between them have about 30 years experience caring for, showing & loving the Arabian breed. They are both graduates of equine centered studies at Michigan State University which has a wonderful Arabian breeding program (one of the oldest continuous Arabian herd in the USA).
Michigan State University Horse Teaching and Research Center Arabian Breeding Program &
MSU Veterinary Teaching Hospital
I consider myself, & our breeding program at Weaver Arabians, very fortunate to have their knowledge & skills at hand. Between them, they have studied conformation & genetics at the University level and worked many hours at farms in the industry including
Shea Stables the trainers & stallion managers of Afire Bey V (owned by Dave & Gail Linigers of
Maroon Fire Arabians). They bred our young foundation stallion Noble Afire MFA (IXL Noble Express x Butterfly Afire) and many years ago selected as part of the base foundation to that HUGE breeding empire, the mare Flame Dancer (Barbary+++ x Autumn Flair by *Eter). Flame is now our farm's cherished and pampered Queen who recently blessed us with Noble's first filly,
our first homegrown foal. Her 3rd dam is the Abu Farwa daughter, Miss Floco.
To help myself and hopefully others I continue to work on a page of
Arabian Horse Research Links. As I locate material that I find useful I add it to the page; initially the page was just for me, so I could access the info from any computer, as it grew I thought others might find it a useful tool as well.
I apologize that this got so lengthy...I do not have the background to give you my impressions...I can only offer my research skills as I try to do my part to continue the tradition...
"Let us never underestimate the historic importance of the oral tradition, of passing information from generation to generation of Arabian breeders." - Caryn Rogosky (
from a Straight Egyptian forum; topic of
Inherent Capabilities Of Family Strains"
...which may also be of assistance to the original poster if she was able to stick with it long enough to get this far...
---And if I got some, most or all of it wrong, somebody please TAKE ME TO TASK...and teach us two and all the others who may read this thread in the future... <G>
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Jul 1 2008, 03:23 AM
... I hope u'll excuse me, english actually is my third language .. my mother language is arabic and my second lang' is hebrew ... so sometimes I face some problems in expressing my points or purpose in english...