This topic came up in the "Reporting from SHN" thread and I thought maybe we should create our own. My question is should SHUS classes be split at the national level and what can we do about it?
IMO, I think the class should be split for 2 reasons;
1) for the safety of the horses. Last year there were 93 horses in the PB SHUS ATR class. The class was broken into 3 heats, therefore there were 30+ horses in each cut. Due to the size of the arena it was a matter of keeping your horse safe...and not to mention being seen! I watched one of the SHUS Open cuts where one horse (who was having a great ride) got kicked in the rear from a passing horse. Fortunately, from what I saw, the horse looked physically strong and was able to work it out. I don't think he made his cut. What I am getting at, is these are national caliber horses! Who wants to risk their horse getting injured at Nationals after spending all of their time and money just to get them there?
2) for the inconsistancy of judges. Is it possible for a dressage judge and a hunter judge to agree on the perfect sport horse? They are looking for 2 different types of animals. As mentioned from the other topic, one horse made one judges card and not the other. The same happened to me last year where I was 3rd on one judges card and I didn't even make to other's.
Don't get me wrong I had the time of my life at SHN and will never forget the experience. I just wonder with the growing entries of SHUS, will AHA ever split the class (like they do for EP, hunter, etc.). What is your opinion and do you think AHA will rectify the situation?

Well, I don't know too much about SH, though I am interested and would like to learn/eventually show SH rather than say, MR HP. I do think they should split the classes. I watched some of the Reg. IV Championships this year, and it amazed me how different each and every horse was. We had one mare we were watching that had EXCELLENT rides, was a pure pleasure to watch, and I bet to ride as well. She was a hunter type, long and level mover, with lower head/neck carriage, and less snappy/more length of stride. She was so very mannerly, had perfect rides, and she was basically ignored for the more flamboyant horses (can't even say I'd think they were dressage types really, more MR HP or CEP). We were very suprised, and thought in many cases she should have been in the top two of her classes, but I don't recall that she ever was. We noticed the same style preferences in other classes that mare did not show in, but she was the most memorable example. Anyway, after seeing that, I definitely think they should split the classes. It would make me more likely to want to bother to show, to know that my horse would be more fairly judged, against like and fair competition.

There already is great discussion on splitting these classes. Sport horse and h/j and dressage committee members have had polls taken and talked it up and down and still trying to iron it out. I sit firmly on the fence and can't decide either way. (I show hunters and don't change how I ride them for a dressage judge and they do well under both types) I certainly can see good reasons for splitting (SHN this year) and good reasons for not. I am happy to go along with the majority as long as if they do split, horses can;t go in both splits at the same show. (BTW, they open pb shus last year was divided into 5 splits and despite that there were a number of blow ups which didn't seem to affect those horses placing!)

I feel the split can only prove beneficial if the correct judges are hired to judge the split classes. If they are not, then splitting the classes does absolutely NO GOOD! These classes are HUGE and are continuting to grow at an incredible rate. This of course is GOOD NEWS for AHA and the SHOWS financially of course. I think for this sake if nothing else, let's make this class attractive to steadily encourage continued entries and participants. Remember thinking like AHA is when you will actually start to get their attention.....Not when we present things to them because WE think it's correct/best...I believe they call that 'reverse psychology '

Seriously though - many many reasons to split the classes and it is for the better for the horses, exhibitors, AHA. etc. When people are having fun, feel safe in the ring (number of entries vs. ring size), feel like they are treated fairly, hey guess what??? They might just come back and do it again??? Imagine that concept??? LOL

Dressage horses move one way and a Hunter horse typically will move different. No one would EVER consider putting W/P horses in the ring with CEP horses at a National Level show, hiring both a W/P & CEP Judge and expect the judging to be correct??? Most likely why they are split, huh??? LOL ~ They are different, should be considered/judged different, and have a different class for their type...........

I am with what seems to be the majority and agree the SH classes ACROSS the board need to be split between Dressage Type & Hunter Type, hiring the appropriate judges to judge the split classes.............Then when you win/place in your classes, you can feel confident that you did well against other individuals that play in YOUR sandbox in YOUR discipline................JMO

Carry on.................

Denise Gainey

Yes, should be split - hard to compare apples and oranges coherently.

Yes, they should be split! Of course a hunter judge has different ideals than a dressage judge...that's a no-brainer. I'm not sure if most horses that are shown SH go from dressage to HJ and crossover??? With the obvious popularity of these classes, it's not like there wouldn't be horses to fill them. You should add a poll to this topic and then petition AHA. Just look at the difference between the Sport Horses in the Canadian Nationals classes (www.donstine.com)...it's like comparing apples to oranges; which is the best? Of course if you are in the business of owning an orange grove you will choose and orange, but if you own an apple orchard, you would pick an apple. The type of horse can vary way too much. As esquire brought up, even saddleseat classes have different divisions within--CEP, EP, Park.

I believe we need to seriously consider that split if only because there is no one set of criteria for the class - and were we to eventually add the working western horses to SHN, would we include the reiners and cutters and working cow horses in SHUS?? Or perhaps define some kind of Stock Sport?

Come on - if we don't divide by optimal discipline (especially since we don't seem to consider SHUS to be a 'potential' class with the more mature horses moving on to their designated discipline), we'll end up having to split it in a less rational way. We'll have Junior Horse (that probably makes sense, but I'd rather see them ALL be Junior Horses) and shoulda-gone-on-into-a-discipline Horse, age splits for the riders, etc.

It would offer one opportunity to demonstrate that at least in the Sport disciplines, we understand criteria and judge to it. Our history of not doing so in the CEP/E/Park continuum (word carefully chosen) shouldn't be followed in SH.

We have had a lot of experience with this at both the regional and national level. Last year at SHN Lilly made the dressage judges card in the junior horse class, but not the hunter judge. Same thing in the SHIH classes. Did good under the dressage judge, was basically last under the hunter judge. The funny thing about that is at regionals the hunter judge loved her, placing her 3 out of 20 in SHIH where the dressage judge didn't really care for her. So what do you do with that? Well, you move the horse back to MR in Western Pleasure and do awesome! She is only 5 but has seemed to have found her niche in the western arena.

I would rather they not be split. Or if they make them into two classes.

But - whatever, if they are split I could live with that.

I am on the National Committee for SH and have spoken to Marie Taylor over the telephone and through email about this very issue. Everyone who is on the SHN Committee received a questionaire regarding splits (Hunter and Dressage as well as age group splitting for us "older" amateurs). It was taken to "the powers that be" and I think that it was passed - don't quote me on that because I am drugged up w/ Sudafed, so the brain cells are not firing on all 8 cylinders. I know that the issue was presented. I recall it being that there would be no cross entering between Hunter & Dressage in the split classes. Several people made inquiries regarding 3 Day Eventing horses - again, I don't recall the entire results of everything.

Another big issue that I spoke to Marie about is the fact that judges are not educated. An instance happened at a Regional show last summer where the SH judge showed up w/ her own personal scoring system and judged each horse in the SHUS class as a potential dressage horse. Not very good for a SH who is in hunter tack. This same judge also asked for BOTH collections and extensions - the SHUS ATR class was 45 mins long.... As Marie explained to me, Janet Henderson was putting together an instructional DVD for judges to look at before they judge an Arab show so that they know what they are doing. The problem is that some of the judges don't feel that they need to watch the DVD or read the instructional materials regarding our Arabian Sport Horses...

I urge everyone who has an opinion to go to the AHA website and join the Committee so that your voice will be heard. You don't have to attend the meetings - just sign up and get on the email list so that you can participate in the issues.