I've been surfing some of these Polish threads and am impressed with the level of knowledge and experience with Polish breeding among this group. I am hoping someone here is a collector of Polish sales catalogs and can help me find some information.

I remember from 1980s catalogs that each horse had a page with a photo, race record, progeny, etc. Also measurements (in centimeters) were included. I am trying to find this last information on a stallion exported to the US in August of 1977. Does anyone know if these catalogs go back to the 1970s? If so, and someone has a copy of 1977, would you be willing to look up a bit of info for me?

Andra

I don't know if such catalogues existed. I know of the catalogues since the sale has been taking place in Poland, that is 1983 I think.
There were exportations before, but I don't know if such information as measurements were printed on any documents.

Apparently you know the date of import, so probably the owner, so try contact him maybe.
If you can tell us the name of the stallion, I'm sure some people could help on this forum.
Maybe someone has seen it and could comment 'he was tall, medium, short'...

Good luck

PS : I see you're a new member, so Welcome on ABN!

Hello Andra!
Welcome! I don't own such catalogues, but if I knew stallion's name, I could call or email PASB office and ask them, how tall the horse was. Every pure arabian horse bred in Polish State Studs had his own card, with pedigree, parameters and race records.

Hi Vincent,
Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I have talked with the owner in past years, and recently another person familiar with the stallion. Conflicting info., by 3-4 inches. The mare I am breeding to is only 14.1, and I really was hoping to add some height.

The stallion in question was *Dalipan (Chazar x Doliwa). He arrived in the US in August of 1977. I know his sire was at Michalow.

Janek, could you really find this information for me? I would be very grateful.
Thank you both for your replies.
Andra

Good luck in finding the adequate stallion for your mare. I believe most of the height is inherited maternally, so don't shoot for "gigantic" if your mare is 'tiny', it's risky.

Here is a picture of Dalipan on Sluzewiec racecourse. Maybe people can comment on his height compared to his handler.

Vincent,
That is the only photo I have seen of Dalipan from Poland. I have a couple from the US, but no person in the photo.

I am interested in the idea that height is passed maternally, I had never read that. The dam of my small (14.1) mare was a good 15 hands, if not 15.1. My mare has two full siblings that are closer to their dam's size. So, I'm not sure why she turned out so short. I would think theoretically the genetics for a taller horse are still inheritable, given her dam's size. What is your opinion or experience on size skipping over a generation?
Andra

Photo of *Dalipan in US

I have no opinion or experience on that subject. I only know that the foal development in utero is limited by the dam's capacity (big body).
There are many variables that can affect size : genetics, age of dam, quality of milk, food, soil,...
You can only TRY to counter-balance by choosing a tall stallion for your mare.

I have the records of all horses presently in state studs with sire and dams size. I have noticed it is VERY hard to predict the size of offspring. It is mostly aleatory and abnormalities (extra tall 159cm, extra small 144cm) arise from time to time. Such horses are not kept, unless they are of invaluable quality.
Some stallions who produced particualrly large offspring are Wojslaw and Piaff, while retaining good dense bone.

Information fot tiki-bird directly from Michalow Stud Staff:

Dalipan (Chazar x Doliwa) was measured at Michalow as two years old colt and as for two years old horse he was really big. His height was 147cm, girth circumference 176cm, cannon circumference 19cm.
I don't know how tall he was after finishing his growing process, but I suppose he wasn't smaller than 150cm, couse state studs used to geld stallions smaller than 150cm those times.

Hello Andra,

We owned a Chazar daughter, *Galia. She was beautiful and of average size - not small. Good body, good mind. We also owned her Negatraz daughter Gambria who gained in height from her dam and as you know Negatraz was not tall.

*Galia (Chazar x Gielda):


As you can see from this photo... the 'handler' isn't tall!

Good luck in your search.

Maplewood,
Thanks for the picture and info. I think Chazar crossed well on Naborr daughters. *Artemida is another example, very pretty, feminine mare. Actually, I wasn't sure of Negatraz's height, though suspected he might have been small. My 14.1 mare is a Negatraz grand-daughter on top. Her dam (15.1) was actually similar in breeding to *Galia and *Artemida, as she was a *Lotnik grand-daughter on top, and out of a Naborr grand-daughter.

So how tall was Negatraz?

Janek,
Thank you very much for the info on Dalipan. If I did my math correctly, 147cm= 14.2 hands, which, you are right, is a good height for a two year old. He does seem to have gained bone mass, as well.

Thank you both,
Andra