How do I train my gelding to have a good headset and what equipment will I need? He has been long lined and worn a surcingle w/side reins. He has also been ridden with draw reins but that gets his head to far "behind" the bit. Also how do I slow down his gaits (mostly canter). And get him to get underneath himself and round his back while cantering. He is somewhat flat and hollow at the canter which is really terrible to ride. He takes a couple great strides and then hollows out. I have tried increasing a little at a time, but he always feels he needs to speed up. I have access to an indoor arena now and want to work on these things but don't know where to start?


**Most important** getting a good "Whoa". On the ground and in the round pen he is awesome. Under saddle well...maybe now.....no not yet......now..........ok got it!!! I want the same stop I get on the ground. Where he stops instantly!! No questions asked.


Thanks
Wendy

re; whoa.

Ask for whoa, cue for whoa, wait to count of three for whoa, back horse up 5 steps, stand for at least count of 3 before walking out. Can be done from any gait.

To slow down , you can use the same method. Ask for rate(horse to slow down) by increasing contact, if horse does not slow down, stop him ( without verbal cue)and back him up. Wait count of three, then ask for gait again. Start at walk, when perfect, trot then canter.

For lope or canter, I use lope circles. Put horse on cirlce at end of arena in lope, establish balance and gait, then ask for whoa. Stop, back up 3 or so steps, turn on haunches towards inside of circle, stop(or pause) then lope out on loose rein. Great for establishing balance and self carriage, developing muscle and collection.

If you get these exercises down, your head position should take care of itself.

as far as a headset I am of no use but when it comes to "whoa" sink your rump down in the saddle and relax when you ask for a whoa..... then back up, do it again eventually he will understand that when you sit down and relax it means to whoa.... start out posting then it will be more defined when you sit still in the saddle... did that make sense?

slowing him down.... do a lot and I mean thousands and thousands of one reign stops.... as soon as you feel him going faster than you like bend him to a stop (ever watch clinton anderson?) flex him from side to side several times then take off again. He will slow down but it is not a quick fix.

and to get him to round his back do lots and lots of roll backs. Start at the walk and turn him into a wall so he has no choice but to change directions then gradually work up to a trot then a canter.

Jacinta

Boy, I'm not going to be very popular here, but my advice will be the opposite of what some people have said; just to give you the flip side of the coin. I am not a trainer and have never won anything at USN or regionals so you can take my advice with a grain of salt if you like. I did not make it up; instead got lots of it from Olympic alternate Jane Savoie (and other dressage trainers) First you can either try different training techniques or he may have a physical problem you are fighting. Or he could be sore from the saddle or something else. He may be going behind the bit from side reins. Now I do not use these on a regular basis but have used them on OCCASSION. If he is getting behind the bit you need to send him forward to accept contact. But do not have them so tight that he can't round himself; it takes a long time for a horse to get fitted up to be able to lift thru the back and the withers. It will take months for him to get condiditoned to do this at least; probably longer. While I have no problem with SOME rollbacks MANY can be hazardous to your horse's health. We have a horse that was started by a BNT who had a torn ligament by his SI joint and the university vet said it could have been from the BNT making the horse do excessive rollbacks on circles. ANY exercise done excessively can cause the muscles to tire, then other things take over (ligaments) and can get torn and then you have a HUGE problem! My biggest and best suggestion to you from me is to get the Jane Savoie books on Cross Training (books 1 & 2). You will already know some of this info but some of it may be new to you and it will give you a systematic training program that will help you get a soft round horse that is a joy to ride (for any discipline)! Good luck and remember there are MANY ways to train a horse; you just have to pick and choose what is best for you and your horse.

Thank you!! As we all know each horse is an individual and not all training techniques work for everyone. I'm looking for several ideas to find the one that works for us. I do not personally use draw reins and have tried the side reins only a few times. The breeder who owned him and broke him to ride did. In the video he sent to me he was using them. I normally ride him in a relaxed manner and was not concerned where his head was. But I wonder if I had him more collected that his balance and gaits would improve?? Actually it's his canter that kills me he is very choppy and I have a hard time getting in sync with him. Which is why we very rarely canter. He gets it for a few strides then totally loses it. When he does it feels like I'm sitting in a rocking chair, smooth, but then chop, chop...ok enough! My butt can't take it and neither can his back. He has made vast improvements on his whoa since I have owned him but I feel it needs to be better. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!!

Tell me what has worked for you.......you never know maybe it is the key for us.

Wendy

I would take bits and pieces from everyone here. The way I've always gotten a headset - WP or HP - is this..... we start out at a forward trot - don't worry about speed until you have collection & bit contact first. We just move forward at the trot, pick up the reins and ask for contact, hold for about 5 strides and release - let the horse nose out if he feels the need to for about 10 strides, then pick up contact and hold for another 5 strides and so on. Continue increasing the strides with contact as he gets stronger and can hold. You have to build up these muscles before you can work on slowing down w/ collection. This works w/ the canter too. Once they can go a few times around the arena w/ the contact, then you can start to do spiral ins and outs to get the lift in the neck and the slower pace - as you move tighter, they will slow. After the spiral ins and outs get too monotonous - or they learn how to balance well enough to speed up during the smaller spiral, then I'd say, move on to a few roll-backs or stop & starts to get them guessing as to when you're going to stop or turn, this will aid with slowing them down. I wholeheartedly agree w/ not doing too many of the roll-backs as you don't want to sore them in their hocks - this will undo the collection work.

To get a "cue" for a slow jog, relax your hips while sitting to "rock" back and forth with the natural movement of the horse, doing this at the slower speeds will begin to set a cue that when you "rock" with them, they are to slow down. You can then start loosening contact with their mouth and maintain collection for that WP look. If they do not know how to neck rein, turning (start at the walk) in squares in the arena, while laying the outside rein on their neck, applying pressure w/ outside leg and pushing them over will get them to learn to neck rein. You can even "rub" the neck w/ the outside rein (not enough to pull on the mouth, keep that rein slack) to get a more effective cue to move off. This will take a while - good that you are starting now to work on this if you want to show this summer.

As far as a good "whoa" - I'm not so confident in one-rein stops, as I tend to have horses that will swing their hind end out of engagement and slide out from underneath me, but the way I teach whoa - is when on the ground, lunging or round penning is to make it a difinitive vocal "HUP" - not saying whoa as the 'oa' sound will trail, but HUP gives a short stopping sound. Once they respond to this, when on their back, I stop all hip motion, relax my butt and legs down - I think about melting down into the saddle and my legs melting into the floor, shift my hip backwards to get a deep seat and say 'hup' - if they don't respond to this, a gentle lift of my reins to add pressure to the mouth, but not a sharp jab in their gums is all I've needed. This will also encourage collection into the stop, their head should drop, and they should rock back slightly onto their hind end.

I have found that a lot of people try to put a "head set" on their horse w/out knowing that it truly comes from the hind end - they must be properly engaged from their hind legs in order to pick the bit up and be collected and get their heads in a comfortable position. Without the motor going behind, the rest of the horse falls apart. Sure you can use draw reins, martingales & side reins - but, if you're not allowing for proper motor behind, it will be false, and you'll get that hollow canter and trot that are murder on your back & hips. Just as an FYI - I do use these tools, however, the martingale is rarely used as leverage for a headset, but rather a reminder that they are not to lift their head beyond a certain point - the same goes for draw reins. Never use it as a crutch to force the headset, but to aid the horse to know where you want their head to be. With my side reins, I always use them very loose to encourage them to drive low into the bit and search for contact to help build their back and hind muscles.

Hope this helps! Good luck - oh, and post pics of your progress if you can!!!

Libby

One of the most important things I have heard regarding whoa..When you ask for a whoa.. stop riding.

something I do is, when I ask for a whoa I loosen the reins a hint, sink my rump into the saddle and blow out the birthday cake candles.. That is I blow out, this expells your energy and you stop riding. So when you blow out your candles, your shoulders should lower, and you rock back a little and sit deeper into your seat.

try it now in your chair. You will notice immediately that your whole body relaxes. I don't mean Exhale I mean, pretend there are candles in front of you and you want to blow them out..

As far as slowing down, I add a little pressure into the "bit" (In my case the noseband) and say "Easy" and repeat it low and slow "easy" while using your pinky on the reins to give a little pressure, (Kinda like a light see sawing motion) the moment he slows release the pressure.

Hope that helps.

That was cool; blowing out the candles. I also like the backing; just be sure to not overdo!

You guys are awesome!!! I almost need someone to watch me while I'm riding I've heard this helps with being able to see and tell what I need to change and fix. Since I don't know how it should feel its hard to tell if I'm doing it right. I have a video taken this summer of us riding in an outdoor arena it is terrible and I'm ashamed to let anyone see it. We don't have anyone here local that gives good lessons because I would love to take some. I've been riding since I was 12 but there is always room for improvement and to be a better partner for my horse would be worth it!!!!! I feel that he is just as frustrated as I am and it's because I'm not giving clear direction. Riding seemed so much easier when I was younger.

Stinks to get older...

Wendy

Still could be a saddle fitting problem, tooth problem or some other discomfort. It can take a long time to find out what is wrong if its not a training issue. Be sure to keep an open mind that it may not be a training problem. Does he look organized, balanced on the longe at a canter?